Out of interest why do you use Linux, or why would u if you don't!?

[Posh Geordie]

Sorry re-open an old post.

I read yesterday how Formula 1 teams use Linux-based programs for windtunnel testing and telemetry systems.  Reason given is that it's far easier to tweak algorithms etc with open source programs than closed source ones.

The other reason why the F1 lot are using it is that IT graduates are leaving university with in depth knowledge of open source which they were 'forced' to use to design their software, and therefore became the OS of choice for them.
 
This explains why Linux will tend to be the domain of technical based IT solutions rather than the casual user.

I'm not sure if I said this before but I'm finding that computer illiterate users of XP take to a simple preconfigured Linux system like a duck to water, whereas a dedicated MS (and possibly Mac) user struggles to make the transition.  Quite an interesting observation.

I have this great picture of Beeees car:

I can personalise it enough in terms of adjusting the mirrors, seats and adding some bits and pieces which I find useful (boot tidy, tension clips on the seatbelts) or aesthetically pleasing (actually, I can't think of anything like that on my car unless you count the keyring I chose to add to the car key!)

What she doesn't tell you is that in fact she really has fluffy dice - or is that fluffy leeks - and a sticker in the back window saying 'Beeees's Beeeeeemer' (possibly the only time a car has a special 'driver' installed!!!!)

I wonder how she would configure her Linux computer if she had one- open source fluffy mouse .......

[stumpey]

Thought I had better say something as you all know I love Linux..but earn a living looking after a MS *cough* network.

But it has all been said in the previous posts above..

Steve

[aoakley]

Why I use Linux:

1. It is free of cost. I have three home-built PCs at home, and it saves me money. Recent pirated versions of MS-Windows are generally unreliable and not guaranteed to get security updates.

2. It is free of restrictions. I get much finer grain control. I can set up my system exactly how I like- not just customising the desktop background or picking sidebar lint. For example, I have written a script to download Radio 4 programs via RealPlayer at home, then convert them to MP3, then upload them to my desktop PC at work so I can listen to them the next day. I've also written a script to reset all settings on the guest account on my laptop, so I can lend my laptop to friends, they can mess about with the settings all they like and I can restore it back! Writing these kinds of scripts would be a nightmare in MS-Windows, and would required hundreds of pounds spent on expensive development software. With Linux I can just rattle out a 10-line shell script.

3. For servers, Linux is more reliable and easier to set up. In particular, with remote servers hosted in foreign countries, I do not need to use a graphical desktop or web-based control panel, I can set everything up using the command line.

4. It is very easy to find and install programs, and to keep the system up-to-date. The Debian/Ubuntu apt repositories are a joy to use (I'm less impressed with Red Hat / Fedora's yum system, though).

4. I do admit that the desktop isn't quite as reliable, or well-catered for, as MS-Windows yet. Also many of the less popular desktop applications are of low quality with little or no documentation. However, for the vast majority of tasks I want to do, the Gnome desktop is reliable enough and has a sufficient range of quality programs. Most of the time I just want a web browser, email program, word processor and photo retoucher, so Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice Writer and GThumb are perfect. I do occasionally boot into an old copy of MS-Windows 2000 to play games and do more complex image editing in Paint Shop Pro - it is often difficult to find out how to do things in The Gimp (I'm not questioning whether I can do the same things in The Gimp, I'm just questioning how poorly documented it is).

5. The Compiz 3D desktop is massively impressive, and actually practically useful - the rotating cube helps my brain understand the concept of multiple virtual desktops, which is almost like having multiple monitors!

The one book I'd recommend that will encourage people to switch from MS Windows to Linux is "OpenOffice 2.x Writer Guide" http://www.lulu.com/content/690763 . This is a 450-page guide to the popular replacement for Microsoft Word, available as a very solid, hard-wearing paperback for 12 quid delivered! Best twelve quid I've ever spent on any computer book, it explains how to do a load of things that I'd previously only known how to do in Microsoft Word. For example, switching between multiple columns and a single column on the same page.

[right ejit]

EDIT: ... and also one of the reasons why I will choose an MP3 player over an iPod every time and why I am never likely to own an iPhone.

With you on that one. They both are a tribute to form over function.

[Posh Geordie]

OK there are issues with games not having a Linux version, but having said that there are some superb sophisticated Linux based ones which are often better than the equivalent Windows based ones.  World of Warcraft comes to mind.

I read the other day that with Wine, Linux actually has more games compatibility then Vista with windows games! 

I know they've been doing a lot of work on Wine,  but has it really matured to that extent?  Brilliant if it has 

[Beeesneees]

iTunes and Quicktime are the pits.  Combined, they are one of the reasons I never took to apple PCs despite their swish looks.

EDIT: ... and also one of the reasons why I will choose an MP3 player over an iPod every time and why I am never likely to own an iPhone.

[street_spirit]

OK there are issues with games not having a Linux version, but having said that there are some superb sophisticated Linux based ones which are often better than the equivalent Windows based ones.  World of Warcraft comes to mind.

I read the other day that with Wine, Linux actually has more games compatibility then Vista with windows games! 

[street_spirit]

 

only have a very basic idea of how a car engine works, but I can still drive well enough to have passed an Advanced test. I can personalise it enough in terms of adjusting the mirrors, seats and adding some bits and pieces which I find useful (boot tidy, tension clips on the seatbelts) or aesthetically pleasing (actually, I can't think of anything like that on my car unless you count the keyring I chose to add to the car key!). It only becomes important that I know what I'm doing beyond my current skill level if I decide I'm going to start messing about with BIOS settings or dual-boot systems or building machines. I have no intention of doing so therefore I choose to spend the time I would need to take in learning more about my computer doing something else. Something which for me is more urgent/ productive/ essential/ pleasurable/ whatever.

That doesn't seem like ignorance to me. It seems like common sense.

Perhaps though like yourself I know very little about cars other then checking levels of stuff and even that Im not that good at...but my point is I would dearly like to know more about how my car works because if I did I probably wouldn't feel like I was being ripped off or made to feel an idiot every-time I speak to a car repair person. Or even just repair the car myself, now that would be nice!

But yes perhaps I was a little ott in my statements. I think what concerns me more is that people are being given less and less choice, even if they want to customise there hardware or software there not allowed to. You know if I buy an xbox why shouldn't I be allowed to put linux on it if I want to!? If I have an iphone, and it doesn't do something i want it to why shouldn't I be allowed to build an application without the thing turning into a brick when it gets new software updates? You know and then they do gracelessly release a development pack however with loads of limitations, even of the type of content that could be put onto it, and all applications must install through itunes on their servers! Or the BBC iplayer why shouldn't I be allowed to store programs, I can record them on sky plus what's the difference? Though there is a neat security hole for that now which involves the relase of the iphone version of the player, google around probably find it.

[Posh Geordie]

I'm now building Linux systems for people mainly based on various flavours of Ubuntu.

Reasons for picking it over Windows:

1.  it's free.

2.  No virus  / spyware worries.

3.  It will run on older Pc's right down to PIII's with tiny amounts of memory (some amazing usable distros will run happily on 64Mb of RAM). 
Typically they also boot up from cold in less than 1.5 minutes and usually far quicker than that. 
Also when the machines are running they use less resources, and run a lot cooler too.

4.  I've chosen the various flavours of Ubu because installation and setup is becoming increasingly more straightforward. 
To expand on this, wireless has been a traditional  stumbling block.  OK I am careful in the make and model of wireless cards I use (typically off the shelf bog standard D-Links), and if I have the card plugged in, their drivers and support programs are installed as part of the default installation process.   All I'm left to do is to enable it and set up the usual ESSID,  encryption etc - I don't remember it even being this easy in Windows!
On the downside I still have to do a certain amount of package selection, but in Ubu it is actually now possible to do this without ever resorting to that pesky command terminal - yes really!
The reason for having to install extra packages is that, unlike some other OS's, a default Linux / Ubu distro contains just what is needed to make it run, and with a few of the really popular packages thrown in to get you started.
From this starting point each user can then precisely tailor their setup to run the packages they actually want.  If you don't want Internet access, just remove the browsers, or if Opera is your favourite, then install it and remove the default Firefox.  Since when can you do this with IE in Windows?
I could go on at length about this, but time and time again it justifies itself to me.  I do a lot of video editing, and today I had a video in mp4 format which I needed to convert to VOBs to put onto DVD.  I attempted to do this in Windows using Winavi, but got told that I needed a missing plugin.  Switching to Ubu I used DeVeDe, and a couple of mouseclicks and a bit of time later I had my video burnt onto DVD - no fuss, no bovah (sorry watching katherine Tate!)

5.  The PC's go out to people who have absolutely no knowledge or interest in how Ubuntu / Linux works.  They want a system that does what it says on the box, no more and no less.
To pre-empt your question, could they install and config their own PC's.  Probably not, but there again could they install Windows?
Could someone who is conversant with Windows install Ubu for the first time.  I would say yes, especially since there are some very good step by step guides with pictures at every point to guide you.  As to installing the 'extras', again there is plenty of guidance. 
The question you ultimately have to ask is that if you used Linux / ubu all your life and then was offered a Windows disk, could you install it for the first time without experiencing a big learning curve?

6.  What about long term reliability?  My answer is what is the BSOD?  I am yet to see one or the equivalent in Linux.  In short if I was offering Ubu support as a business to these people, I would soon be out of a job.  The various Ubuntu distro's I've installed have been 100% reliable, and I've only had to take a look at one more than a year after the chap had been using it, and that was to give it a bit of a tweak in one area - a five minute job!

7.  There are a ton of free programs available for every aspect of computing with more coming on stream every day.  I am yet to be stuck for a package for some job or other.  My one criticism is that some of them are extremely complex (like the video editing packages for instance) but they have been written by experts who want to include as much as possible into their packages and then offer them for free.  I'd rather have it that way than to find myself being stuck for some feature that might be available on a future update at a price.
OK there are issues with games not having a Linux version, but having said that there are some superb sophisticated Linux based ones which are often better than the equivalent Windows based ones.  World of Warcraft comes to mind.

8.  And yeah I'm just evangelistic!

Hope that helps in bringing the Linux ubuntu issues up to date.

[Beeesneees]

It's still too nerdy for me. I don't want a choice of umpteen different products (Ubuntu, RedHat and gawd knows how many others) all masquerading under the Linux heading. I want a clear market leader that is plug and play and works straight out of the box, with no faffing about.

I want to use my PC to do other things, not spend all my time tweaking my PC.

Well Ubuntu is probably that I guess.

I'd say you guess wrong as you are basing your evidence on your own knowledge base regarding computers. Ubuntu still needs what I would consider to be 'tweaking' to get a lot of programs and peripherals to work.

It is interesting I suppose the augments for how user friendly a computer should be, of course the more user friendly it becomes the less customisable and ultimately less powerful and productive it becomes. There also the argument that it is a skill, you wouldn't expect to just hop into a helicopter and know how it works, its a complex bit of kit that you must learn and master it. Which i suppose leads us to what we have, turning a skilful thing into a factory type operation, lots of people just pressing buttons without really know what we're doing. Just doesn't seem like a good thing really, it seems to keep people ignorant and in the dark. And we all know were ignorance leads us.

But there comes a point where need no longer drives knowledge. Don't try telling me that pilots could build an aircraft from scratch. For me, 'mastery' is getting it to do what I want, when I want, at an appropriate speed and with an appropiate amount of input. I only have a very basic idea of how a car engine works, but I can still drive well enough to have passed an Advanced test. I can personalise it enough in terms of adjusting the mirrors, seats and adding some bits and pieces which I find useful (boot tidy, tension clips on the seatbelts) or aesthetically pleasing (actually, I can't think of anything like that on my car unless you count the keyring I chose to add to the car key!). It only becomes important that I know what I'm doing beyond my current skill level if I decide I'm going to start messing about with BIOS settings or dual-boot systems or building machines. I have no intention of doing so therefore I choose to spend the time I would need to take in learning more about my computer doing something else. Something which for me is more urgent/ productive/ essential/ pleasurable/ whatever.

That doesn't seem like ignorance to me. It seems like common sense.

You know and Apple and Windows seem to get ever more extreme. Even if people want to to customise the system, they make it impossible, like with the extremes of the xbox or the iphone. You buy a piece of hardware and they totally stop you customising it in anyway! My xbox 360 actually will cease to work if I don't get the updates! How crazy is that? Sorry gone off on one a bit there...

Now don't faint but I agree with you there! I'm thinking of software as much as hardware though. The kind of 'Microsoft think this is what people want so this is what they have decided will happen with this version, regardless of how customisable it has been in the past' programming.

[street_spirit]

It's still too nerdy for me. I don't want a choice of umpteen different products (Ubuntu, RedHat and gawd knows how many others) all masquerading under the Linux heading. I want a clear market leader that is plug and play and works straight out of the box, with no faffing about.

I want to use my PC to do other things, not spend all my time tweaking my PC.

Well Ubuntu is probably that I guess.

It is interesting I suppose the augments for how user friendly a computer should be, of course the more user friendly it becomes the less customisable and ultimately less powerful and productive it becomes. There also the argument that it is a skill, you wouldn't expect to just hop into a helicopter and know how it works, its a complex bit of kit that you must learn and master it. Which i suppose leads us to what we have, turning a skilful thing into a factory type operation, lots of people just pressing buttons without really know what we're doing. Just doesn't seem like a good thing really, it seems to keep people ignorant and in the dark. And we all know were ignorance leads us. You know and Apple and Windows seem to get ever more extreme. Even if people want to to customise the system, they make it impossible, like with the extremes of the xbox or the iphone. You buy a piece of hardware and they totally stop you customising it in anyway! My xbox 360 actually will cease to work if I don't get the updates! How crazy is that? Sorry gone off on one a bit there...

[Beeesneees]

It's still too nerdy for me. I don't want a choice of umpteen different products (Ubuntu, RedHat and gawd knows how many others) all masquerading under the Linux heading. I want a clear market leader that is plug and play and works straight out of the box, with no faffing about.

I want to use my PC to do other things, not spend all my time tweaking my PC.

[right ejit]

Not sure that using proprietary graphic drivers in Linux amounts to selling your first born, where as using an OS from Ol Bill I am sure many will consider to be just that.

I use it part of the time 'cause I like to watch how it is developing from nerd only to really usable OS for the masses. The time is fast approaching when a momentous decision will have to be made. Go Vista or Mr Torvalds baby. Might wait until all support for XP is withdrawn and I can't find drivers any more.

[street_spirit]

I am interested to know why people you Linux?

Is it because of Intellectual property concerns, because it's free as in beer! Or because you enjoy it as a system? If all three which is your main reason.

I ask this as the main reason I use it is because of intellectual property concerns. I do think it's a nice operating system but if for instance it was as locked down as windows or mac I probably wouldn't bother with it I think. Which brings me onto the restricted driver feature as if I want to have my graphics card working I have to install non open source drivers. Which puts me in a bit of a pickle, sacrifice the main reason I use the operating system or go without higher end graphics? Then again the majority of the system is still free, and my main system continues to be my lovely 24 inch iMac, so I sacrifice my principals anyway...Mr Stallman would be disappointed...